Should K-12 districts be afraid of GoogleApps for students?

From yesterday's e-mail:

Hello Doug,

 

I've read enough of your writing to imagine that perhaps you're the person to relieve the cognitive frustration I have experienced in trying to get discussions going around the idea of students utilizing the Cloud via our district network.  I saw your response in the most recent issue of Learning & Leading* to a writer expressing fears as I mention below, and am hoping you can expand on this a bit.

 

Forgetting about universal netbooks for the moment, this is just about making Google Apps available to students.  There is a great deal of fear (paranoia?) around the idea that students might actually find themselves subject to the entire suite of what can be encountered via the Google domain.  Discussions always devolve to fears of CIPA violations and the inability to effectively filter student access and monitor student interactions on the web.  When I mention Postini or other web-filtering systems, the fear of powerful student-generated workaround strategies generally brings discussion to an impasse.  Yes, some students are very, very proficient at finding workarounds, often in the context of our own locked-down network, so I completely understand the fear of the public perception that we are opening the floodgates to corruption if we were to move into the Google environment.  There is also fear expressed over our inability to effectively monitor email interactions should we establish such a thing here.  With the onset of student behaviors like "sexting," there is widely-held belief that minor students would use their access to free interaction on a district-provided web environment in such a way as to open us to enormous liability.

 

With tech heading rapidly toward using the tools of social networking to make education systems relevant to students again, I am intensely interested in exploring more aggressively this perception that loss of total control over student access to the web equates to district CIPA violation.  I am confused, because I attend conferences where district tech leaders have jumped into the Google domain with both feet and a yelling "C'mon in, the water's fine!", then I come home to the fear outlined above and read endless accounts of reasons to "Step away from the Google!" The iPhone has already rendered our attempts to control them obsolete, but what changes when we provide the signal?

 

So Doug, is there a body of discussion that has involved people responsible for CIPA enforcement that can shed light on the darkness here?  Our students are leaving us behind a light speed, and I fear our fears of CIPA non-compliance will leave our educational systems even more irrelevant than we already are. 

 

Thanks for your work, by the way.  I, too, am working from the non-tech side to get people to ask the right questions of their machines. 

 

Best regards,

Personally, I don't get the connection between GoogleApps and CIPA - how the use of GoogleApps may in some way violate CIPA. CIPA's restrictions on student use of the Internet are rather limited. The laws says "a technology protection measure [generally interpreted as a filter] with respect to any of its computers with Internet access that protects against access through such computers to visual depictions that are obscene, child pornography, or harmful to minors..." "Harmful to minors" can be interpreted as broadly or narrowly as one would wish, but there is certainly nothing that spells out online productivity suites like GoogleApps be blocked. I wonder if people sometimes get CIPA and DOPA confused. DOPA, which did not pass, required all social networking sites be blocked. *This is a little expansion of my remarks in L&L.

Here are some things that administrators may not understand (or want to ignore) about GoogleApps for Education:

1. The basic set of tools in GoogleApps for Education are Gmail, Chat, Sites, Groups, Video (limited) and Docs. Each of these tools can be made available or not made available separately for each domain - it's not an all or nothing proposition.
2. Access to the materials in these tools can be limited to those within the school's domain. In other words, if so configured, no one without a school account could access a student's e-mail, Docs, websites, chat etc.
3. While user classes (teachers, elementary students, secondary students, etc.) cannot be defined within a single domain, sub domains can be created that give those in them specific access. In other words, one could allow secondary students access to e-mail, but not elementary students.
4. Monitoring and archiving e-mail, to my knowledge, IS problematic unless a secondary service is used. Google's Postini, GaggleNet and others can provide this service, but at a cost. One can, of course, view e-mail, docs, etc. of any individual if one has administrative rights.
5. Can students use these tools to bully, harass, send naughty pictures, etc. to each other. Of course. Just like they can use paper and pencils to do so.
6. The use of our Internet filter has not changed - its configurations remain the same. Yes, kids find work-arounds to blocked site via proxies etc., but this has no relationship to GoogleApps for Education. Access to the Google Seach engine and other Google sites and tools are neither greater nor less because of the adoption of Apps.

Thoughtful school districts will review their AUPs (I'm liking the term RUP - Responsible Use Policy - more and more) to make sure it covers something like the use of GoogleApps. There will need to special training on responsible use as a part of the introduction of the tools to kids. And sensible districts will continue to collaboratively develop good guidelines for the implementation of this service, like any technology, getting input from a wide range of stakeholders in the school and community.

Unreasonable fears should not be an impediment to any technology adoption. Some risk, considered and acceptable, is a part of any change.

Deal with it.

Added Feb 13 - Here is another educator who share the POV that CIPA is not a reason to not use GoogleApps. Mark Wagner "Google Docs Does Not Violate CIPA (or COPPA*)"

Image source <http://meppol.deviantart.com/art/The-Boogie-Man-75013278>

Comments

[Kris Hagel]

Let me preface my comments by saying that I am in charge technology operations for a school district. The same person who in many districts would be "Network Guys", the ones spouting off this CIPA nonsense.

It has been painful for many years to listen to my cohorts throughout the area, state, and nation try and use CIPA as a cover for the fact that they are having to start to cede control of computing in this new era of Web 2.0, Social Networking, Etc..

We present in our area trying to get districts onto Google Apps because of the progress we have seen our staff and students making in using it in our district. One of the first things we do in our presentation is to shoot down any notion that CIPA applies in this use case. It would be nice if more people would actually read the law before they try and impose their belief of the law onto the ones they have been tasked to oversee.

In 2008 our state office of public instruction went through a process of crafting an acceptable use policy that leaned more towards a responsible use policy as well. If anyone is interested in that, it can be found at this link. I sat on that committee and can assure you we studied CIPA inside and out in this process and just could never come up with a coherent argument as to where it applied in many of these new Web 2.0 cases, especially something like Google Apps where you can control completely what comes in and out of your "domain".

I have advised a couple of school districts this year on implementing Google Apps, and it always seems to come back to the argument from the "Network Folks" that opening up email is a problem. My suggestion after counselling them why it is unlikely to be an actual problem is that, if that is the only real stumbling point, don't throw the baby out with the bath water. Turn off email. As you stated, it is a modular system. In our district our users have found the most valuable pieces of Google Apps to be Docs and Sites anyway, so if email is a concern, turn it off and don't use it.

[Terry]

OK, you guys are the big brains, especially you Doug :-) . I have been trying to get my Tech Director to even acknowledge Google Apps for education exists. Apparently, ignoring a subject invalidates its existence. Anyway, through "the grapevine", I hear that Microsoft SharePoint is being "evaluated". That is code for the the decision has been made. If I understand the reasoning correctly, Microsoft "gives" SharePoint to districts that have Microsoft servers. Hmmm, can money be at the root of a public school educational decision? Anyway, I'm trying to put together a salmon whitepaper ("going against the current", etc) to at least get a comparative summary of MSP vs Google Apps regarding educational value to students/teachers. Do you know of a source that has done the heavy lifting of putting together this type of comparative analysis? Yes, I am lazy, but I have my convictions...

[Fran Lo]

"Can students use these tools to bully, harass, send naughty pictures, etc. to each other. Of course. Just like they can use paper and pencils to do so."

Come on, Doug; a sketch on paper is not the same as a photo of a naked kid. But kids are doing to do it - and already do it with their phones. There is just no way to block every conceivable thing kids can do - if administrators are trying to "protect" themselves from liability that way they are doomed. I think this has to be handled via acceptable use policies, and consequences.

[Cathy Nelson]

I have been going around and around about this with a committee I serve on. The chair wanted to use Google Docs to share, but bemoaned that some on the committee have them blocked in their district. Well just color me purple because I was so MAD! My suggestions was to use all avenues we have to share, including Google Docs, a wiki, and even a plain old website, and that everyone on the committee (and eventually members of the organization) would then have access in some way, shape, or form.

But I could not let the blocking og Google docs go, so I asked a specific committee member exactly what was so bad with Google docs. Her response:

I am not disagreeing with you regarding Google docs, but to gain access to them you have to read and agree to Google's terms...this doesn't come in segments but requires gmail access (which is prohibited under state internet guidelines for district access) and all of the other components of Google. Additionally, one of Google's terms is that the person agreeing is 18 years of age or older! Doesn't apply to a large segment of our population in schools...The state "owns"/provides internet bandwidth for all of the school districts and marks off if districts have open access to web-based email (which is a requirement of Google). Therefore, if Google were opened, a district would be penalized for this usage and would be denied additional bandwidth if needed. So it comes down to a determination to cut down access for other internet-based services because a network cannot handle it, or open sources so educators (and others) can have shared access to things like Google docs. This is an issue that we are discussing heavily in our district and have not come up with the solution yet.

YIKES! I am so glad I don't work in this district.

[gwyneth]

thank you so much Doug for this!....we were just talking about this in a middle school LMS meeting this past thursday...i'm so ready to teach google apps to my MS students but so many are afraid! this is going to be sent out to some of the powers that be in my county! again, dear guru thank you!
~gwyneth

[Carolyn Foote]

Doug,

Thanks for posting this. I TOTALLY agree with you that people just aren't paying attention to what the law actually says, and then using that as some sort of justification for blocking things.

I did a conversation on this at the first Educon conference, trying to gather up some best practice documents that people could use when faced with a situation like this. I'm sharing the wiki here (which I never went back and cleaned up or updated), in case some of these documents are helpful. I just think when people are told it's iillegal, or against the law, they don't question it, so in this case, knowledge is power.

http://educon20.wikispaces.com/SAT06RM204

Our district allows use of all of the google apps except for gmail because we have our own email system.

For those concerned with the age for Google, you can try out Zoho, which also has a nice range of student apps and lists a younger age range.

I'm not sure either what the fear there is? Google Docs, spreadsheets, presentations provide nice tools for students to use at home who might not have access to MS Word or other word processing software--so it actually improves equitable access.

Thanks again for raising the issue.

[Dana]

@Terry

My district is also looking in to Sharepoint and I would love to see any comparison also. In our district though we are also deciding if we should upgrade Office 2003 to Office 2007 (or maybe 2010) at a cost of about $70 per machine on a total of over 3000 machines (thats over $210,000). I know Microsoft will want our districts money and will try to sweeten any deals, but I too am hoping that Google Apps will be looked at carefully and not ignored as in your case.

[Doug Johnson]

Hi Terry,

I've not seen a head-to-head comparison of GoogleApps, Sharepoint, Live@edu, Zoho etc. Sound like a great project, however!

Sorry,

Doug

Hi Fran,

My point was that kids will harass each other if so inclined regardless of technology. Having access to GoogleDocs seems a whole lot less problematic than kids having access to cell phones to me - and who would deny them that??? ;-)

All the best,

Doug

Hi Cathy Jo,

I think this is a great example of the problem not being with a particular technology, but what it represents: more transparency, more collaboration, more consensus building - and less unilateral control over a process.

Excuses can be found for rejecting ANY thing.

Doug

BTW, the 18 year-old-contract thing is bogus. The DISTRICT enters into the agreement with Google, not the kid. The district then provides the service.

Keep fight'n for those kids, Gwyneth!

Doug

Hi Carolyn,

Thanks for the link to the wiki. Looks like a very useful resource.

Like I responded to Cathy, the 18 year old argument is bogus. The district contracts with Google, not the individual student.

Like so many fair use/copyright issues, I think we need to assume this stuff is legal until proven it's not instead of the other way around1

Thanks again,

Doug

Hi Dana,

I guessing Microsoft is going to have to offer something like GoogleApps or lose school district's completely. Looks like an area where there will be some rapid changes.

I know we are sure question who need Office and why!

All the best,

Doug

[Karen Kliegman]

Thanks for this, Doug. I am forwarding this to my tech people. I have been advocating for Google Apps in my district since November of 2008. It gets kicked around a lot, but then gets buried. Maybe reading this will help.

[Doug Johnson]

Hi Karen,

Good luck. I will continue to post about our experiences.

Doug

[Bud Hunt]

Doug,

Thanks for this post. We're just getting going with our implementation in my school district - and this was a fine reminder and a good recharge for me as I've been struggling through many of these same conversations. I thought I'd offer up the FAQs that we've created for starting to have these conversations in our school district. Here they are:

http://blogs.stvrain.k12.co.us/helpdesk/st-vrain-apps/

Perhaps they'll be useful.

Dealing with it as best as we can,

Bud

[Bill Storm]

This string gets me to thinking this topic should be a round table discussion of administrators at a professional conference. This exchange has been very helpful, and I will come back to this post to check on how the discussion is going. Google tools are very powerful tools for moving/sharing information, and that power seems be be catching in the craw of different stakeholders in different ways. I'm struck by Bud's approach above, that it needs to be an evolving discussion, not just a yes/no administrative moment. Thanks for hosting this, Doug.

Bill

[Doug Johnson]

Thanks, Bill. I found the topic interesting as well.

I find it interesting to look at motivation in these sorts of decisions to do or not do something. Is it a legitimate concern or is it a concern about losing "control"?

All the best,

Doug

[Melinda Miller]

Are these google apps issues or supervision issues? Is the concern what they will/can do outside of the school? I believe that most AUP or RUP state that a teacher is present?
The "cloud" issue is a new issue to be thinking about. I have not decided how I feel about all that yet. I feel like everything I have done since the birth of WWW has been put in a cloud somewhere.

Bill, I think an admin round table is a GREAT idea. I will try to host that type of format at my training at the MAESP conference this spring!

[Doug Johnson]

Hi Melinda,

I agree that supervision and teaching is at the core of the responsible use of any technology. Well stated!

Doug

[Andrea]

Hi Everyone,

I am a technology. I am working on a paper that will analyze the legal issues surrounding the use of Cloud Computing in K-12 schools. Thank you all for your comments. In regards to the comment stating that students are not eligible to agree to the google contract, I have a question. Have any districts made an attempt to make a contract with Google for their school district? For instance, you can make a specific contract in which perhaps students do not have to agree to the terms, the district makes a blanket agreement and then parents agree to student use of the Google Apps when they sign their network use agreement. I have heard rumors that Higher Ed is making these types of contracts. Any thought?

[Jan Zawadzki]

Just to clarify the terms & conditions questions:

Google Apps Education Edition will be default show each new user a terms & conditions page. THIS CAN BE TURNED OFF. Just ask your Google EDU contact or lodge a support request.

The GAEE Terms and Conditions are NOT the same as the public Gmail ones, and can be found here: http://www.google.com/apps/intl/en/terms/education_terms.html. Google can provide you a counter-signed copy if required. The indemnity clauses are probably the one thing that might warrant attention (and it's also generally non-negotiable from Google's perspective, in our experience).

Your students and your staff are NOT required to agree to any additional terms & conditions - your school or your district enter into the agreement.

Jan

[Doug Johnson]

Thanks, Jan, for the clarification. I wonder if agreements are the same internationally?

Doug

[Ross]

Thanks for the thoughts. Can I ask what you think of the SPAM folder? It seems inappropriate content can be viewed by students through the SPAM folder. Unfortunately, the folder aggregates all the worst emails into one handy folder for the students to investigate. Wouldn't it be wise of Google to give Educational editions of GoogleApps the ability to hide that folder from student users?

[Doug Johnson]

Hi Ross,

My experience is that Postinit, the Gmail filter, does a good job of catching inappropriate spam at the firewall level. While we give adults the ability to check what has been trapped there (once a week) and moderate their white and black lists, I don't think we will do this for the students.

Also, since student e-mail addresses will be used only within our domain, I don't expect spammers will get much access to them.

And as always, we aren't doing kids many favors by not helping them deal with the realities of the world - how to spot bad messages and deleting them without opening them. We teach kids to read AND teach them to leave the adult materials on the magazine rack!

All the best,

Doug