Can e-books gather dust?
Saturday, February 20, 2010 at 02:16AM With Janet's kind permission, I am posting her e-mail to me about her experience using e-books and electronic support materials in her school. Seems like her experience should be educational for all of us. Doug
Hi Doug,
I'm sending you this "off line" as it seems too long for a posted comment, but I wanted to share my thoughts on your latest postings on e-books.
Here in CA a lot of us have to manage the textbook collections in our high schools, so this discussion is always relevant. I can confirm that with our latest adoptions in social science, science, math, and English Language Development, we received the textbook (and the teacher's edition) as an ebook, as well as in print. Depending on the publisher, they all have a variety of helpful tools to help the student study and understand what they are reading. We also have copies of our health textbook online and on CD in PDF format. The online health text version works well, but the CD version is a waste, as the page numbers don't match the print version.
More than 20 years ago, the district did away with lockers at the HS and MSs for various reasons, one of which was the stated fact by administrators that "everything will be on CD so who needs a locker?" Well, here we are in 2010 and students are now carrying 30 to 40 pounds of books worth about $400 on their backs. Did I mention that we are a high achieving high school with 3600 students, many classes, and 84,000 textbooks?
Now for the reason for this long introduction. Over the last 10 years, I have been asked several times to check into the availability of e-textbooks, but for reasons that you and your followers have stated, the books have often not been available or they are more expensive, etc. This has been partially solved with the inclusion of the e-text with the print text when a book is adopted (and paid for). This is usually in CD format, but sometimes in online access with a pass code. Some are better than others. However, one interesting factor has arisen that was not mentioned by other commenters. Students don't want to use the books in e-format of either kind. They pretty much don't want to read on a computer. Parents don't understand the e-books. Most of the copies of the books on CD that came with the adoptions are sitting in boxes in our increasingly crowded textbook storage area and we can't give them away. The ELL texts have especially helpful tools included with the CDs, but we can't convince students and parents to use them. You can probably say that this is a communication or PR problem, but it is a problem that is not being discussed here at my school or here by your followers.
We seem to make assumptions about students and technology that are often not true, and there seems to be a lot of them about e-texts especially. I don't think we can necessarily combine the discussion about e-library books, including fiction and reference, with the discussion about e-textbooks at the high school or college level. The considerations seem to be different when one is talking about textbooks and there are still so many factors to consider that you have mentioned in this post and in the follow up. I'm glad you started the discussion. Now we just need to encourage people to join it. Of course, given the nature of technology, things will have changed by the time we finally get around to coming up with some solutions. It will be interesting to hear what happens at the school in Texas mentioned in one comment.
Janet HasBrouck, Teacher Librarian
Arcadia High School, Arcadia CA
I wonder if California's Governator visited with any real live librarians or teachers before suggesting all textbooks become e-textbooks?
Reader Comments (20)
"Students don't want to use the books in e-format of either kind. They pretty much don't want to read on a computer."
1. Is it that students don't want to read on the computer or that they don't want to read textbooks (which, let's confess, are pretty uninspiring) regardless of format (print or electronic)?
2. Why would students want an electronic version of a textbook when they don't have the devices in school on which to view it? In other words, they need to have the textbook in class, on the bus, etc. If they don't have laptops 24-7, of course they need the print version. And if they have the print version, then they don't need a second electronic copy.
I feel like I'm missing something...
Dear Scott,
1. While it is true that many students will not read textbooks in any format (for whatever reasons), students who do read may find the textbook less tiresome on the eyes. While the later laptops have become much easier on the eyes (and the e-books even more so), many students who even have machines will have the $299 back t0 school special from 2 years ago.
Even if a child is using a fantastic laptop, the visual quality of reproduction of the textbooks on-line may not be adequate for sustained reading. My experience with Pearson's has been good. The on-line version of Holt, Rinehart, and Winston's textbooks( at least the two I've used), however, are rough on the eyes--they look like they've been made with a mid 1990's scanner.
2. If a child has both electronic and physical textbooks, the old-fashioned kind can be left in either the school or at home, depending on the school's tech resources--the student has access to the text without lugging it around. Textbooks have gotten quite heavy, and even more important, quite expensive. Lugging the books around damages them.
As a trainer for adolescent literacy, we find that students do want to read print version of text books. In fact, teachers unfamiliar with secondary literacy techniques often fall into the trap of assigning reading, then knowing students likely did not read, summarize the content for students -- which leads to students finding even less value in their textbook.
I am not familiar with most of the versions of ebooks shared, but I can say I do not like to read on my computer, but love my kindle.
Is it students reading in text books in general? Format of the reading material? Or lack of training regarding use of these innovative formats? Other?
OK, now I really hijacked this thread.
Virtually all my avid readers turn their noses up at the thought of reading an ebook. I DO have one student who has a Kindle and loves it. I would love to try out a library Kindle or two - if money fell from heaven for me to do so. I am studying the issue.
But I will also say - when our kids do research, they do one of 2 things:
1. Find a segment from a web page that appears to fit the topic and then copy/paste it into a PowerPoint et al.
2. Print articles to read and highlight later.
As near as I can see, they surf the net to find factoids, but when they need or want to read anything in depth, they hit the print button. Many librarians lament the waste of paper - but I actually welcome it. It makes me hope that they might actually read (and think) about something more complex and thought-provoking than a "factoid".
While doing some research for a middle school survey on how my students are using technology, I stumbled over some research Joyce Valenza and her colleague are doing concerning "High School Seniors and Social Networking" (http://pdfs.voya.com/VO/YA2/VOYA2009tag-team.pdf). Though their research is not complete, initial results show that students do not like homework that tries to incorporate the social networking tools and technology they are wired into. I assume this includes reading textbooks, on the computer. The data thus far seems to suggest, my opinion, that they are on social overload with computers and other tech equipment they use and do like the reprise that reading from a textbook allows. I think this makes sense. I do wonder if a tool like the Kindle mentioned earlier, would be a suitable substitute while alleviating the 40 pound textbook burden which is real and can cause physical problems -- a concern for the well-being of the whole person.
A few random thoughts, in response to both the conversation here and on Michael's blog (see comment 4).
1. I would be among the last to argue that online reading is easier on the eyes than offline reading. Text clarity and visual contrast still are better with ink on paper than pixels on a screen. I still do much of my reading on paper rather than on a screen. So I concur with those of you that offered this as a potential reason why students prefer paper rather than e-textbooks.
2. That said, ease of reading on a screen is getting better. As a result of improvements in screen clarity, along with costs, accessibility, and other affordances, we all are doing more and more of our reading on screens. We should expect this trend to continue. Janet's statement notwithstanding, it's a fact that students do quite a bit of reading on screens. Also, Amazon tells us that the Kindle is most popular with avid readers, not occasional readers.
3. We are indeed learning that we read differently on a screen than on paper. Some are worried that we are going to lose the ability to immerse ourselves deeply in long texts. I confess that I am not sure yet which way I fall on that issue. Perhaps devices like the Kindle or the iPad or other varieties of e-reader will resolve this issue down the road (e.g., I'm interested in seeing what the effect of readers like the iPad will have on picture books). Doug once wrote about the post-literate society, when we get more of our info from videos and/or immersive graphics and simulations rather than from text.
4. Students typically don't read very many pages from a textbook at a time, so I don't think the length of text is typically an issue for a night's worth of reading.
5. I wasn't trying to 'tweak' anyone or be 'pithy' with my comment here. I was just trying to ask two simple questions. The second had to do the with the issues of redundancy and viability - if students have two versions but only one is really viable from an access standpoint, why would we be surprised that students aren't interested in the non-viable option? Student preference for format (print or electronic) isn't the issue in my mind; instead it's an issue of ease of access. I wonder if students in 1:1 laptop programs would say that they still preferred print versions of their textbooks?
6. Finally, I don't mind that folks like Michael Doyle or John Spencer aren't big fans of my writing. I don't expect to appeal to everybody and am not sure I could even if I wanted to. The beauty of the blogosphere is that we can find voices that resonate with us and avoid those that don't. I am a little taken aback at the labels of 'elitist' and 'ivory tower' and 'sellout,' however. I was the first person in my family ever to get a college degree (my sisters later followed me); my dad was the only other one that even attended college at all. More importantly, however, I know few faculty, particularly at research institutions, who work as hard as I do to get off campus and work with practicing educators. I am in schools and with teachers and administrators all the time. I'm actually rarely on the ISU campus and routinely implore my faculty colleagues, both locally and nationally, to get off their theoretical high horses and get a pulse of what's REALLY happening in schools. I also don't feel that I'm anti-teacher, any more than I'm anti-administrator (and I push administrators MUCH harder than I push teachers because most of schools' internal problems are their fault, not that of classroom instructors). I AM anti-current-system-of-education, because I think it hasn't adapted to our present reality. We need to push hard on that extremely-entrenched system to get it to move and change; I'm willing to be one of those people.
7. I try to take my blog with a grain of salt too, Michael. I agree that Doug's a mensch!
Thanks for the give-and-take. My law training appreciates a healthy dialogue. =)
Dear Scott,
Ah, I'm going to split hairs here, but I suspect you enjoy hair-splitting as much as I do--I enjoy your writing, and it's all the more fun to read your blog because I often disagree with your ideas. You write well (a hard thing to write without sounding sarcastic).
I have no problem with elitism per se. I do have a problem with some assumptions that folks in education administration make about those of us on the ground.
I almost took the post off--I realized I misread your second point--and may yet change it to reflect the point (as opposed to tweaking a famous edublogger). I appreciate your equanimity and I do not doubt your sincerity. If I thought otherwise, I'd be wasting my time.
Hi dear, I can't think ebooks can do so. Because I like ebooks but kids may like or not. I believe if we can offer them in good way books at computer they will enjoou it.
Michael, I will own being a hair-splitter at times. Such split hairs often are the crux upon which a policy or law or reform initiative succeeds or fails. Details are important!
Thanks for your gracious words here and over at your blog. I concur that we'd have a good pub conversation. Hope that happens sometime!
I sent you an apology e-mail. I understand why you felt attacked. I didn't know your whole story - which is one of the dangers of the blogosphere and one of the dangers in my own brokenness.
I have actually enjoyed quite a few of your posts.
My comments were tossed toward you, but they were misdirected and I apologize. I have been ultrasensitive to the whole education reformer thing for awhile, because so much of it seems anti-teacher (and at time your posts have felt that way). I've watched good bloggers begin to make teachers into the targets (Joanne Jacobs comes to mind) and I sometimes bite back too hard at everyone.
Anyway, I really am sorry and I readily admit that I was wrong.
Hi John,
Thanks for the kind words. I didn't feel attacked - sorry if I came across that way. I was just a little surprised because I work so hard (at least for an academic!) to stay in touch with schools and be supportive of teachers and administrators WHILE SIMULTANEOUSLY pushing them hard to do things differently. No worries. Difficult-to-discern nuances of the written word and all that. Plus, I have a thick skin. We bloggers / attorney-types have to! =)
I know I come across a bit strong at times (usually?!), so I cause some of this problem myself and will own that. We need to keep pushing, though - all of us - to turn this ship in new directions. Otherwise it's going under, to be replaced by something else...
Back to Doug's post, here are three things I forgot to say in my previous comment(s). I put these over at Michael's blog too:
1. I find myself reading more and more fiction using the Kindle app for my iPod Touch. I just jack up the font size and flip through screens. I can read FAST this way.
2. I'll buy a Kindle the day it becomes easier to highlight, mark up, and otherwise annotate. I actively engage in my nonfiction text. The joystick for the Kindle is too clunky in my opinion.
3. Janet's dead on when she says that we often make assumptions about students and technology that aren't true (at least to the extent that we think they are).
I think it was stated before, but the ebooks will not be successful when half launched. Hmmm how to explain. As a teacher I would go for the quicker easier method of presenting material. If I have a physical text manual to refer to and it takes but a second to pick up, I will use that versus opening some software on the computer. Though I have no research, I bet all students would too. The positive for me is that I am not lugging a lot of books around. They happily shift from place to place on my desk as I need them. Now as a student if I am given the two options, I will go for an easier one. Though I will not be happy lugging a lot of text around I might. Last I knew, students can't highlight physical text. Negative to the ebook is reading a bright screen does have a brutal effect on the eyes. However, if I was given a Kindle (not harsh on the eyes) and it carried all my texts not just a couple, I would definitely take it. Sure they are clunky right now, but students adapt quickly. I think the bigger issue is how we are giving students a half product. Sure.. take this CD and haul a laptop (just as heavy) around. Worse is these "text ebooks" have various different platforms which bog down my computer, alter what I really want on my computer, and most important are 'not' easier. In the end, isn't ease supposed to be why we want to change to something. I think CA is trying to change for the positive, but did not sort out their constraints. Library ebooks are a whole different can of worms.
I come from a very specific perspective. Our school (speaking here of 7-12) has had MacBooks 1:1 for 6 years now. Our students all learn differently, and while some use their textbooks in an audio version, they do not use the ebooks that we do have (only science so far, in the CD format). One reason is that it takes some tech skill to get the laptop to read the publisher produced etext, but a more important reason is because they do annotate their textbooks, highlight, take notes. They have a set of textbooks in the classrooms for the most part, so they do not go back and forth. Their backpacks are still over-packed as we have huge binders and a specific filing system they need and use. Some of our teachers will have textbook material on their SMART boards and will focus on parts with notations, highlighting,,etc., and these notes are sent to students via their electronic "hand out" folder.
However, when doing research our students invariably (not exclusively) prefer the subscription databases over books--not only as the text can be heard. The format is more intuitive than textbooks for them. I think the problem is the "textbook." The paradigm shift is away from textbooks, and using primary sources, specific papers and articles. Do teachers actually go through the book page by page? Don't they bring in other material? The etext book cannot just be the print version, page by page. It is like taking a step backward, not forward. Besides, if textbooks go the way of Texas here (which is usual) you do not want them in any format!
I am a high school teacher in New Orleans, Louisiana. I think it is opportune to have at least a classroom set available for students. I teach language arts. I understand the benefit of having a textbook to teach from apart from primary source material. I much prefer my state (which doesn't) to leverage money for primary source ebooks and ereaders rather than pay for etextbooks (a secondary source). Who wants to keep their textbooks anyway? It makes more sense to bulwark the school's library with ebooks, electronic databases, etc., that support all curricula (Ebscohost, ebrary, Google Books (when it goes public). A life long learning goal we want to foster in our students is to OWN books they cherish. Frankly, I don't cherish my high school textbooks but I did cherish Of Mice and Men and Midsummer Night's Dream. I don't think it is wise for a school to eradicate lockers. It seems it as just as ludicrous for school to eradicate its library.
I'm a middle school librarian, and I've had different experiences with e-nonfiction/reference vs. e-fiction. My students and faculty absolutely love our e-reference collections from Gale and our e-nonfiction from Infobase. I love Gale for just about everything, and the Gale Virtual Reference Library is no exception. I can create custom sub-collections with direct URLs, download MARC records with URLs to my catalog, add search widgets and direct links to specific books and on and on. We use them all the time. However, I have to say that the Infobase e-books are the best I've seen in terms of screen readability and ease of navigation. Some of our textbooks are available in electronic editions too, but the issue is as someone else mentioned -- availability when there's no internet connection. We're a 1:1 laptop school, so enough devices isn't the problem. Because of the issue of carrying heavy books plus laptops plus sports bags (all students are required to play) our students leave their textbooks at home and we provide classroom sets or e-texts.
As for e-fiction, the students don't seem that interested. I only know of one who has a Kindle, and there has been zero interest in "checking out" e-fiction through our catalog. Maybe that will change with the iPad -- I know if they could legibly read books on their iPods, they'd probably be doing that. But, maybe not. I love gadgets, but I just can't fall in love with Kindles and Nooks in their current state.
Great comments everyone. This is the discussion we should be having. We just need to broaden the discussion to all of the stakeholders, including parents, students, teachers, teacher librarians, administrators, district administration, publishers , state school boards, and whoever else is part of the textbook process and our community.
I totally agree with the comment that this will not be successful when it is half launched. That is certainly what has happened here. We are not a 1 to 1 school, but we have a lot of technology available to students and staff, and our upper-middle class community provides it's children with more technology than most of the teachers can afford. Our students too use our subscription databases and reference ebooks, but there is still a big disconnect (no pun intended) when it comes to textbooks and using the electronic versions of those books. I am a Kindle reader and like it, but I too don't think its ready for school yet.
I do look forward to reading what kinds of solutions we all come up with, taking into account the many points you have all made up here. Please share with us all.
Hi All,
Thanks to everyone for sharing their thoughts on this. Turned into a great discussion! I don't think I have thing to add!
Doug
I personally belive that textbooks should start going from print to epub and pdf formats. I have an Ipad and I believe that if more text books came in epub rather than print, I could save my back alot of stress as a student. instead of carrying 30-40 pounds worth of books i can carry a one and a half pound device that not only has all my books, but also makes them more immersive. on ibooks, i can easily highlight or add a note about a word or bookmark a page. i can then go to the menu and find all my highlights, notes, and bookmarks. this means that i can come back to important sections or sentences with relative ease, along with vocabulary terms. However, books should remain in print until devices like the IPad become more popular and common.
Hi Karnik,
A lot of students (and teachers) would agree with you. Three things have to happen first:
1. A common format has to be agreed upon by all publishers (ePub, perhaps?)
2. The cost of readers need to be low enough that they are considered consumables like cell phones.
3. Publishers figure out an economic model that allows them to make a profit and discourage piracy.
The adoption of e-text books is more of a political process than technical one.
Doug